Frank Condelli & Associates

RR #2, Almonte, Ontario, Canada, K0A 1A0

Phone: (613) 256-6763                                                                     e-Mail: Fkc43@aol.com

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:02:51 -0500

Rick Koller <rkoller@HELIX.NIH.GOV>

Subject: stebro muffler

Hi all,

     I bought a stainless steel muffler from Stebro and I want to report to the List my first impressions. I am impressed with the very sturdy construction of the muffler, it looks to be very well put together. Not a sloppy weld or rough edge to be seen. A very neat fit and finish appearance that would seem to predict high quality performance once installed. I will be installing it later this spring (when I do the heads) on my syncro and will report to the List how it fits and performs under combat conditions ;+). The people at Stebro were very friendly and helpful taking my order and it arrived here in Maryland in just a few days.

Rick Koller

'90 syncro westie (leaky head gaskets)

'91 carat

'91 gl

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:25:04 PDT

From: Mark McCulley <transporter99@HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject: Stebro muffler first impressions

     Last weekend I received the Stebro muffler I ordered through Frank Condelli. It was packed in about four inches of foam and bubble wrap and survived shipment from Canada unscathed. This thing is quite a piece of work, it's rare to see this kind of craftsmanship in any aftermarket part, much less an exhaust part. I really like that it has it's own stainless steel mounting bracket that will allow me to remove the heavily-rusted original brackets. It will be a month or two before I install it, but when I do I will report back on performance, sound, etc.

Mark McCulley

87 Syncro Westfalia

TRNSPTR

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:14:39 -0400

From: Dave Katsuki <dkatsuki@WORLD.STD.COM>

Subject: Driving report - STEBRO Stainless muffler

     Finally had the chance to put on and drive our Westy with the new STEBRO stainless muffler that I got through Frank Condelli (thanks Frank!).

     As Mark McCulley described previously, the muffler arrived quite well packed and totally unscathed from Canada.

     Really well made muffler, with beautiful welds. and integral brackets (no more rusting expensive muffler clamps!).

     Very sturdy, but not dramatically heavier than the stock muffler.

     Everything fit perfectly the first time, but the brackets are constructedwith a "U" bend in them so they would easily accommodate substantial variations on mounting point dimensions, should you need it.

     Just ran the van on a long trip (Mass to Virginia), and the muffler remained quiet, in place, etc.

     The sound is quite similar to the stock muffler,certainly not any louder.

     Only funny thing is that the tailpipe and entry pipes seem to be made out of non-stainless or a different kind of stainless, and got a slight rusty color after the trip.

     Don't know whether they are simply another SS alloy or not. (Frank?)

Dave

90 Westfalia

Subj: RE: STEBRO muffler

Date: 4/24/00 10:47:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: PGB@dolby.com (Buettner, Peter)

Hi Frank,

     Sorry for not getting back to you. I've been out of town a lot and very busy at work. My first impression isn't that great. I didn't want to give your mufflers a bad rep. I plan on installing it soon and will write a report to the list.

Peter

Subj: Re: STEBRO Muffler

Date: 6/30/00 10:22:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: wnsopc3@3rdm.net (Walt Spak)

Frank,

     Yes, please use my testimonial as you like. I will add to it. When I called the 800 number for Stebro, I was told that the person I needed to talk to was in a meeting and would have to call me back. I got off the phone thinking that I would never get the muffler. A gentleman did call back with in a half of an hour. He was very polite & knowledgeable. He told me exactly how much it would cost, and what day to expect it. The muffler arrived right on time, was very well packed, and the right price was charged to my credit card. Very good service indeed.

     Exhaust - I initially thought I would just put on my existing exhaust system, but as the time drew near, I talked my self into longevity. My muffler brackets were about half rusted out and many of the pipes were rusty looking. I bit the bullet and ordered a Stebro muffler from Frank Condelli in Canada ( I can't seem to find the URL or E-mail address - Sorry). Now that I had it coming, I figured I would just go ahead and get the stainless head pipes from Ron (Bus Depot). Well, if one is going this far, why not a new cast iron 2 into 1 and a J-pipe. I stripped these last two parts and painted them with 1200 degree exhaust paint. The j-pipe is already showing rust though. I sure hope some one makes this in stainless soon.

     Stebro Muffler - nice fit, includes tail pipe & brackets, a slight bit louder, but I can barely notice from the drivers seat. if you have rusted brackets & straps, it is actually less expensive than others.

     I talked to a local about making me a J pipe in stainless. He can make it, but I have to supply the flanges, the old steel ones or my own SS flanges. He also needs about 3" of straight pipe next to the flare. He would have to make 3" too long at the curved end and then cut the 3" out & weld the flare back on. That seemed a little complicated to me. I will buy a J pipe from Stebro if they ever make it.

Walt Spak

Pittsburgh, PA.

wnsopc3@3rdm.net

Subj: Update on STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler

Date: 6/27/00 11:35:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: dkatsuki@world.std.com (Dave Katsuki)

Frank,

     As requested, here's a very uneventful update on the STEBRO stainless muffler that I installed at the beginning of April.

     It continues to be totally satisfactory, quiet, non-rattling, non-rusting, and, well, uneventful. Just what I want from a muffler.

     Uneventful is good.

Dave

90 Westfalia

Subj: RE: STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler

Date: 6/27/00 10:39:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: PGB@dolby.com (Buettner, Peter)

Hi Frank,

     I did install the muffler a couple of weeks ago. At the same time I replaced the cat and found that I get much better performance. So far the good stuff. There's a leak somewhere. I didn't have time to trouble shoot it. I'm not sure if it's the muffler or one of the connectors. Probably a connector. I'll write my report as soon as I clarify this.

     Since I'm at it I want to tell you about a couple of design changes I'd like to propose. I have a 90 Syncro. There is a heat shield (025 251 631) that's attached to the muffler mounts. With the Stebro muffler this heat shield doesn't fit anymore. A small change in the design of the muffler brackets could accommodate this heat shield as well. The tail pipe is much lower than the original, giving me much less clearance in this critical spot. The Syncro has a different tailpipe than the 2WD. Syncro: 025 251 185 G, 2WD: 025 251 185 C.

Cheers,

Peter

July 02, 2000  Comments from Frank Condelli

       Discoloration of the stainless #409 that the STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler is made from is normal.

       STEBRO is still looking into making the header pipes and J-pipe.  There is some hesitation at this point in time due to the fact that Ron of The Bus Depot has brought in stainless steel header pipes from Dansk in Denmark.  His price is going to be hard to beat for STEBRO.  There are some caveats.  The Dansk pipes do not have stainless steel flanges, nor stainless brackets with them.  There is only a six month warranty given by The Bus Depot.  I have personally bought a set of these pipes recently and have them now installed on my '87 Westy in conjunction with the STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler.  The fit was good but not perfect.  The pipes mounted to the heads perfectly with no alignment problems.  But when it came to the attaching the cast iron collector piece the alignment was off about one inch.  When two of the four bolts were inserted the other two were off about one inch.  After loosening all connections on the pipes and little forcing, the four bolts were inserted and all connection tightened evenly.  Hopefully this will not cause too much strain on the system to induce cracking somewhere.  Time will tell and any news on this matter will be reported here in this column and on the Vanagon List.

      It has been noted that the doughnut gasket sent out with some of the mufflers were too large in diameter.  STEBRO is now shipping the proper gasket with the muffler.  If any of you are having trouble with the doughnut gasket connection to the CAT please let me know and I will ship you a proper gasket at no charge. 

     STEBRO will be looking into supplying the J-pipe in stainless steel and modifying the muffler to accept the heat shield on the Syncro models.

Cheers

Frank

Subj: STEBRO Vanagon muffler comments

Date: 7/10/00 10:10:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: k1cajun@pipeline.com (k1cajun)

Frank,

     I installed the STEBRO muffler that I ordered into my 89 Westy Saturday. Wanted to give you my thoughts on it.

     I was surprised when I looked into it and saw that the exhaust has a clear path to the tailpipe. All that stuff around the inside didn't look like it would quiet it enough. Well, I certainly don't know what makes mufflers work and STEBRO does - it sounds just fine !

     It looks like it's solidly built.

     But the fit wasn't what I expected given the comments from others on the Vanagon mail list. For reference, I replaced all my pipes from the heads to the CAT 6 months ago with the Dansk (non-stainless) pipes from Bus Depot. I couldn't get my o2 sensor out of the CAT (rusted on), so I replaced the CAT Saturday along with the muffler with a CAT from Bus Depot. My muffler brackets were half rusted away, straps were just some rust stuck to the muffler - this was the reason I chose the STEBRO with the integrated brackets.

     The brackets would not clear the rear header pipe. I had to get out my grinder and cut the brackets for clearance. Though the brackets angle up as they curve around, it wasn't enough to clear the top of the pipe.  It looks as if it is designed for the pipe being further away from the engine and closer to the muffler than is true for my setup. I've attached a windows bitmap file that shows sketches of the brackets. The dashed lines are where I cut. I don't get why others didn't have this problem. STEBRO ought to change the design a little bit in case others have the problem.

     The inlet pipe wasn't welded on too accurately. It has a slight angle upwards when installed - the pipe is not parallel to the muffler body.  This made it a little difficult to get a good seal with the doughnut gasket. I did leave the bracket bolts loose as well as bolts on both ends of the CAT and the J pipe. Then I tightened up the CAT to muffler joint first. This helped, but the gasket still wasn't able to seat evenly in the CAT. Since the CAT doesn't have much flare to its pipes (brackets are not the sliding type that the muffler and J pipe uses), this concerned me though so far it sounds OK.

     I recall reading before ordering that the gasket was supposed to be specially made for the CAT-muffler joint and was flat on one side ? The one I got was a normal doughnut gasket. And I saw you have a message on your site about wrong gaskets being shipped. Did I get the right one ?

     Since the J-pipe to CAT joint is a similar joint and using a standard doughnut gasket, it may not be the gasket's fault but the crooked weld of the muffler's inlet pipe.

Dave Landry

Subj: Re: STEBRO Vanagon muffler comments

Date: 7/11/00

To: k1cajun@pipeline.com

     Dave, thank you for your comments. I will post them and my following reply on my website, STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler Reviews & Comments .

     The problem with the muffler bracket interfering with the header pipe became known a few weeks ago and all mufflers leaving the factory have been modified. The problem is that the new header pipes being supplied by Dansk are a slight bit different from the OEM pipes which we used when making the prototype. Problem has been solved.

     Your comments about the inlet pipe being attached at the wrong angle puzzles me. It may be that your muffler got manufactured wrongly but that is hard to believe since they are hand built in a jig. The problem just may be that the doughnut gasket you got is still the wrong one. I will send you the proper gasket and then you let me know if that solves your problem.

Cheers

Frank Condelli

Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:23:11 -0000

From: Chuck Roehm <roehm1@midwest.net>

Subject: Mufflers & Waterpumps

Over the 10 years and 80k miles I have owned my '86 Westy, there have been two recurring maintenance themes with which most of you, I am sure, are familiar: exhaust system components (especially mufflers), and waterpumps. Recently I solved the muffler problem for good by installing the Stebro stainless unit. A nice looking unit, sounds great, easy to install. I haven't taken a trip with it yet to tell about mpg, but it is a straight-through design (basically a giant glass-pack) which is bound to lower back-pressure some and that certainly can't hurt the mpg. The entire assembly weighs about 4 pounds more than the OE muffler-tailpipe-bracket setup (this info is just for you other Porsche guys). :-) Hopefully Stebro will have their stainless headers in production by the time I have to do those again. If anyone can use my OE brackets, straps, and tailpipe (brackets are like new, straps are pretty rusty but probably good for one more muffler, tailpipe is decent) p-mail me and I will send them to you for just the cost of UPS, I HATE to throw out stuff someone might be able to use!

Chuck Roehm

'86 Westy Weekender

Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:29:26 -0000

From: Chuck Roehm <roehm1@midwest.net>

Subject: Re: Mufflers

Hi Donna,

Frank Condelli, who is a regular contributor to the list, is the exclusive authorized agent for the Stebro/Vanagon stainless exhaust system. He maintains web pages with further information, owner's comments, and even some nice pictures of the muffler installed on a Vanagon. One size fits all for the 2.1 engines, which is what I have. I think they are working right now on whatever bracket mods may be necessary for a perfect fit on the 1.9 engine. Installation is a snap, really the hardest part of the job is removing your old muffler, with the possibility of rusty bolts, etc., but then you would have to remove your old muffler anyway to replace it with another OE style. Basically two 13mm wrenches are all you need. The Stebro bolts right up to your CAT just like the OE, and the brackets and tailpipe are all welded-on parts of the unit, no separate pieces to mess with. I know some on the list think $275 is high, but I disagree. My former VW parts supplier (before I found this list) gets $200 for the OE style muffler, which was lasting 4 years / 40,000 miles for me. Then add $20 for a tailpipe, and another $15 or so for a gasket and shipping, and you are at $235. The Stebro muffler, for $40 more, has a LIFETIME guarantee, and will always look good too (no more rusty muffler/tailpipe peeking out from under the rear valence). $275 for the Stebro includes shipping from Canada (where they are made) to anywhere in the continental US, and the muffler-to-CAT gasket, even stainless bolts for this connection. So what's not to like? Contact Frank for more info or I will be glad to answer any other questions from an owner's perspective; no, Frank doesn't pay me anything to say nice things about these mufflers, I just know a good thing when I see it and I'm anxious to share the good news with other Vanagon lovers.

Regards,

Chuck Roehm

'86 Westy '72 914 '76 912E '87 944

Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:58:27 PDT

From: Gregg Howald <ghowald@hotmail.com>

Subject: Muffler Replaced

Greetings!

Thanks to all who responded to my request a number of weeks ago about  replacement mufflers. I replaced both my cat and muffler recently and would like to share my experience with all of you who are in or will be in the same boat.

I chose to replace my muffler with the BD $110 muffler strictly for economics. The folks at BD were great and shipped as promised on time. After studying both the new parts and the rusty-in place muffler I began what I thought to be a few hour operation. Well, a few hours turned into 10 hours of fun and frustration. The muffler and associated bolts were rusty to very rusty and made for hellish removal of some of those (an angle grinder would have come in handy). Upon removal, I bolted up the cat to the muffler and began to install the new muffler. The installation went well and the new muffler bolted right into place as promised. The tinkering was limited to rotating the muffler such that the cat aligned with the exhaust pipe. The unfortunate part of all this is that I had to break down and get the straps as my old ones were rusty beyond re-use - stupidly expensive leaving me feeling ripped off.

So, in the end, I could have had the Stainless Stebro muffler for about an additional $50 and would recommend anyone who is in the process of re-doing their muffler to look at your straps and brackets. If you think you need to replace those, go for the Stebro. If your brackets and straps seem OK, the Dansk would be an economical way to go.

The BD muffler sounds great, and there was a temporary smell of burning paint for a few days, but since has dissipated.

Thanks again to those who offered their comments.

Gregg

Subj: Stebro Muffler installed

Date: 10/2/00 10:43:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time

From: rkoller@helix.nih.gov (Rick Koller)

Hi all,

I just wanted to report on the install of my Stebro stainless steel muffler. I am very pleased with the muffler, it is of high quality fit and finish. I had no trouble installing it, it is easier to install than the stock muffler. It is quiet and the van seems to run smoother ( the muffler has a flow thru design) I would recommend this product. Stainless J pipe is next on the wish list.

Rick Koller

'90 syncro-stebro westie

''91 gl

'91 carat

Subj: stebro installation

Date: 1/8/2001 2:03:26 PM Eastern Standard Time

Frank...

Just installed the stainless steel muffler from Stebro... looks great, sounds great, works great. Have to see how she does off road though... seems to sit a little lower than my original.

Only one problem... as hard as he tried, my mech could not figure out how to use the hangars included.

What's up with that?

Aloha!

Mick Kalber

89 Syncro Westy "Dadeo"

Tropical Visions Video, Inc.

62 Halaulani Place Hilo, Hawaii 96720

ph. 808-935-5557 fax 808-935-0066

hotlava@interpac.net

www.volcanoscapes.com

January 09, 2001

The STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Muffler picture page has been updated today to show the the muffler with the Syncro's rear header pipe heat shield brackets attached.  There were some questions coming in from customers wondering how these brackets were to be mounted.  Now you will be able to see them mounted in their proper position.  Since I did not have a heat shield handy to mount you will have to imagine it for now until I can come up with one to pose for a picture.

Doughnut gaskets and loose flange bolts.  Due to a problem of the stainless steel flange bolts supplied with the STEBRO/Vanagon Mufflers and J-pipes working loose, STEBRO is now supplying a new style doughnut gasket which we think has remedied this problem.  Using a doughnut gasket that has been sleeved with a small piece of stainless steel tubing will help prevent the gasket from deforming and causing the flange bolts to loosen.  We still recommend that all flange bolts be doubled nutted with the two nuts supplied being locked against one another. All mufflers and J-pipes being shipped now are being supplied with sleeved doughnut gaskets.  

Cheers

Frank Condelli

Subj: Stebro SS muffler

Date: 7/30/2001 4:36:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: macmillan@home.com (Stuart MacMillan)

To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM (vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM), RAlanen@AOL.COM (Frank Condelli)

I installed my new Stebro muffler yesterday (an easy one hour job), and I'm really impressed! Very high quality, as expected, but the sound was completely unexpected! It actually sounds like the finely tuned German machine that it is! The tone is deep and mellow, and yet much quieter than stock. Think Porsche.

I can't give it enough praise. It's worth every penny, and it's probably the cheapest way to totally change the driving experience of your Vanagon.

Thanks Frank and Stebro for making these fantastic units!

Stuart

P.S.: I think I'll be calling Stebro about doing one for the MG's!

Subj: Re: Stebro SS muffler

Date: 7/31/2001 12:43:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: macmillan@home.com (Stuart MacMillan)

To: RAlanen@aol.com

Sure, you can post my comments. It is an excellent product. I think the after market stock mufflers are poorly made internally, they don't seem to muffle well or sound good right out of the box, and after a few thousand miles they may look to be intact, but I think they start to break down internally pretty quickly. Maybe the OEM stock muffler is better, but considering that it is the same cost as the Stebro, Stebro is an easy decision for someone who wants quality and long life.

Last year I bought a British PECO brand muffler for my MGB. It's the highest performance and quality available for the MG, but not SS. $700 with header. It is a single straight through large muffler with high quality packing like the Stebro, and I was hoping the Stebro would have a similar sound. It does.

I'll Check with Dan regarding what he makes for the MGB, but the PECO with it's 2" versus 1 1/2" pipe and single muffler is the right design.  If Dan copies the stock version I'll see if I can get him to make a copy of the PECO!

Stuart

In a message dated 9/8/2001 6:09:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:

     "got my 1.9 muffler and installed it within ahhh asked my wife about 1 hour, the thing looks bitchin, can't drive still working on my balls joints"

jor

Joseph Fortino

fortino1@onebox.com - email

(510) 360 -7829 voicemail/fax

Subj: Re: [Syncro] Mufflers & Breathing

In a message dated 12/20/2001 1:51:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:

     I'm using a Stebro muffler on my 1.9 85gl and feel its a great muffler, little louder than stock, but not by much.

     I also feel this should last the life of the van, my stocker was blown with rust and just a complete mess.

     It has a nice clear sound to it while running at speed so restriction is limited I feel. (built well inside)

Joseph Fortino

fortino1@onebox.com - email

(510) 360 -7829 voicemail/fax

Subj: Re: [Les-mononcs-en-folie] silencieux

Date: 8/19/2002 9:58:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: y.charron@videotron.ca

To: Les-mononcs-en-folie@groupesyahoo.ca

CC: fkc43@aol.com

Bonjour à tous,

Je suis un lecteur assidu des nombreux messages que les membres échangent sur le site, je crois comprendre que le frigo est en première position du palmarés suivi de près par le changement de moteur.  Moi je veux vous faire part pour le bénifice de tous de mon expérience concernant le changement de silencieux de mon West 84.  

Ayant contaté que mon silencieux était assez bruyant a la sortie de l'hivernation je me suis rendu dans plusieurs atteliers de la région (rive sud Longueuil) pour me faire faire des estimations. Les coûts varient entre 350.00 et 600.00$ chez un dealer Volsk pour remplacer le silencieux, la braquette de retenue et le tail pipe. Lors de ma recherche j'ai vu un message sur notre site de quelqu'un qui mentionnait une place spécialisé dans le domaine dans la région d'ottawa et qui posait des silencieux en inox fait par la cie Stébro que les amateurs de plus de 45 ans connaissent sans doute. Après m'être documenté par le biais de l'internet j'ai contacté le type en question.  D'abord je dois mentionner qu'il s'exprime très bien en Francais et que les commentaires receuillis à propos de lui et de son produit sur le net sont tous positifs.  De plus il donne suite a nos demandes d'explications autant sur internet que par téléphone.Je dois dire que j'ai grandement apprécié M. Frank Condelli il est un type très minutieux il fait un vrai travail de professionnel et quand tu quitte son garage il s'assure que tout est en ordre.Mon travail a été fait au début de Juillet et si j'ai attendu pour donner mes commentaires c'était pour valider la qualité et je dois vous dire que quelques milliers de kilomêtres plus tard je suis toujours très satisfait en plus mon West à un son très volsk.  Pour ceux que ça intéresse le tout m'as couté 925.00$ certains vont trouver cela chère mais je crois que dans les circontances c'était justifié car ça à demandé plus de 6 heures de travail au taux de 45.00$ l'heure pour refaire touts les joints et remplacer les boulons qui cassent dans la tête, le coût du silencieux est de 475.00 et il est garantie à vie.

En passant Frank ne fait pas que le remplacement de silencieux il posséde un West et peut faire toutes les réparations de plus il à en main un synco et je pense qu'il peut vendre des pièces.  Alors je vous donne ses coordonnées.

stebrofr.htm

Espérant que se soit utile à la communauté

Bien à vous Yves

Immaculée 84

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:14:48 -0400

From: tmiller <tmiller@VCMAILS.COM>

Subject: Re: Need to replace Muffler and Tailpipe on '91 Westy

     If you are going to go to all that trouble and expense for a muffler and ceramic coating to make it last longer, you might as well get Frank Condelli's stainless steel muffler and be done with it. It comes with the tail pipe welded in place. No special hangers to buy to install it either since it has it's own hangers attached. No change in sound or performance as far as I can tell. Just good, solid, construction that will last a long time. 17000 miles on mine so far.

Posted by: "Renouard, Robert" robert.renouard@metrokc.gov

Fri Dec 1, 2006 5:29 pm (PST)

I've been using one of the Stebros for three years and have to say it was a super A+ upgrade. The stainless steel unit is sturdily built and looks quite good compared to any standard muffler that quickly rusts, I also think the flow-through design offers a slight performance boost as well. If your in need of an exhaust, I'd jump on this offer because it is a performance component at very good value. The stainless end pipe is also worth requesting. My only regret was not installing a new stainless pipe backward from the cat because the old rusty one looks quite shabby.

Robert, Seattle/Butte

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